Fuel Choices, Food Crises and Finger-Pointing

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April 15, 2008
News Analysis
Fuel Choices, Food Crises and Finger-Pointing
By ANDREW MARTIN
New York Times
The idea of turning farms into fuel plants seemed, for a time, like one of the answers to high global oil prices and supply worries. That strategy seemed to reach a high point last year when Congress mandated a fivefold increase in the use of biofuels.
But now a reaction is building against policies in the United States and Europe to promote ethanol and similar fuels, with political leaders from poor countries contending that these fuels are driving up food prices and starving poor people. Biofuels are fast becoming a new flash point in global diplomacy, putting pressure on Western politicians to reconsider their policies, even as they argue that biofuels are only one factor in the seemingly inexorable rise in food prices.
In some countries, the higher prices are leading to riots, political instability and growing worries about feeding the poorest people. Food riots contributed to the dismissal of Haiti?s prime minister last week, and leaders in some other countries are nervously trying to calm anxious consumers.
At a weekend conference in Washington, finance ministers and central bankers of seven leading industrial nations called for urgent action to deal with the price spikes, and several of them demanded a reconsideration of biofuel policies adopted recently in the West.
Many specialists in food policy consider government mandates for biofuels to be ill advised, agreeing that the diversion of crops like corn into fuel production has contributed to the higher prices. But other factors have played big roles, including droughts that have limited output and rapid global economic growth that has created higher demand for food.
That growth, much faster over the last four years than the historical norm, is lifting millions of people out of destitution and giving them access to better diets. But farmers are having trouble keeping up with the surge in demand.
While there is agreement that the growth of biofuels has contributed to higher food prices, the amount is disputed.
Work by the International Food Policy Research Institute in Washington suggests that biofuel production accounts for a quarter to a third of the recent increase in global commodity prices. The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations predicted late last year that biofuel production, assuming that current mandates continue, would increase food costs by 10 to 15 percent.
Ethanol supporters maintain that any increase caused by biofuels is relatively small and that energy costs and soaring demand for meat in developing countries have had a greater impact. ?There?s no question that they are a factor, but they are really a smaller factor than other things that are driving up prices,? said Ron Litterer, an Iowa farmer who is president of the National Corn Growers Association.
He said biofuels were an ?easy culprit to blame? because their popularity had grown so rapidly in the last two or three years.
Senator Charles E. Grassley, Republican of Iowa, called the recent criticism of ethanol by foreign officials ?a big joke.? He questioned why they were not also blaming a drought in Australia that reduced the wheat crop and the growing demand for meat in China and India.
?You make ethanol out of corn,? he said. ?I bet if I set a bushel of corn in front of any of those delegates, not one of them would eat it.?
The senator?s comments reflect a political reality in Washington that despite the criticism from abroad, support for ethanol remains solid.
Representative Jim McGovern, Democrat of Massachusetts, said he had come to realize that Congress made a mistake in backing biofuels, not anticipating the impact on food costs. He said Congress needed to reconsider its policy, though he acknowledged that would be difficult.
?If there was a secret vote, there is a pretty large number of people who would like to reassess what we are doing,? he said.
According to the World Bank, global food prices have increased by 83 percent in the last three years. Rice, a staple food for nearly half the world?s population, has been a particular focus of concern in recent weeks, with spiraling prices prompting several countries to impose drastic limits on exports as they try to protect domestic consumers.
While grocery prices in the United States increased about 5 percent over all in the last year, some essential items like eggs and milk have jumped far more. The federal government is expected to release new data on domestic food prices Wednesday, with notable increases expected.
On Monday, President Bush ordered that $200 million in emergency food aid be made available to ?meet unanticipated food aid needs in Africa and elsewhere,? a White House statement said.
His spokeswoman, Dana M. Perino, said the president had urged officials to look for additional ways to help poor nations combat food insecurity and to come up with a long-term plan ?that helps take care of the world?s poor and hungry.?
Skeptics have long questioned the value of diverting food crops for fuel, and the grocery and live- stock industries vehemently opposed an energy bill last fall, arguing it was driving up costs.
A fifth of the nation?s corn crop is now used to brew ethanol for motor fuel, and as farmers have planted more corn, they have cut acreage of other crops, particularly soybeans. That, in turn, has contributed to a global shortfall of cooking oil.
Spreading global dissatisfaction in recent months has intensified the food-versus-fuel debate. Last Friday, a European environment advisory panel urged the European Union to suspend its goal of having 10 percent of transportation fuel made from biofuels by 2020. Europe?s well-meaning rush to biofuels, the scientists concluded, had created a variety of harmful ripple effects, including deforestation in Southeast Asia and higher prices for grain.
Even if biofuels are not the primary reason for the increase in food costs, some experts say it is one area where a reversal of government policy could help take pressure off food prices.
C. Ford Runge, an economist at the University of Minnesota, said it is ?extremely difficult to disentangle? the effect of biofuels on food costs. Nevertheless, he said there was little that could be done to mitigate the effect of droughts and the growing appetite for protein in developing countries.
?Ethanol is the one thing we can do something about,? he said. ?It?s about the only lever we have to pull, but none of the politicians have the courage to pull the lever.?
But August Schumacher, a former under secretary of agriculture who is a consultant for the Kellogg Foundation, said the criticism of biofuels might be misdirected. Development agencies like the World Bank and many governments did little to support agricultural development in the last two decades, he said.
He noted that many of the upheavals over food prices abroad have concerned rice and wheat, neither of which is used as a biofuel. For both those crops, global demand has soared at the same time that droughts suppressed the output from farms.

Elisabeth Rosenthal and Steven R. Weisman contributed reporting.
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Grassley is correct.

quote:
Senator Charles E. Grassley, Republican of Iowa, called the recent criticism of ethanol by foreign officials ?a big joke.? He questioned why they were not also blaming a drought in Australia that reduced the wheat crop and the growing demand for meat in China and India.

These poor countries have done nothing because we have been giving them the food while they sat on their ***. So we work and they sit on their *** and b**** and all the economic professors agree with the MF's sitting on their ***. They better get off their *** and start a garden or round up some bugs, they are high in protein.
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verbatime, nice comment, sure glad you grew up with a silver spoon in your mouth called the US. never had to worry about food on the table much like the third world countries that do not have any precious oil.
your statement is uncalled for. BTW grassley is an idiot that has been in congress too darn long. I would have to say his position on ethanol could be considered a conflict of interest as he owes farmland in Iowa and is enjoying the profit of these high prices.
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Tom your statement is uncalled for. I will guarantee you I can out work any man on here bar none. My summers were spent row crop irrigating out of an open ditch. Stacked square bales and scooping hog feeder full. So lazy son of b!itch's like you could eat for nothing. As for what I have, I earned every penny. I never had a dime to my name when I got married nor did my wife. What I did have is enough common sense to believe hard work would pay off. Now as for third world counties just exactly where do you rank in charitable giving. Because I'll bet I out rank you. Give a lazy SOB a fish and he will ****** and moan for more. Give a lazy SOB job and he will starve to death. Give a good man a fishing Pole and teach him how to fish, he will feed himself. Myself I think with any motivation a good man would make his own fishing pole.
Cry me a river Tom you are a jerk off. This crap about third world countries is just that crap. We gave it to them for 30 years so they want us to give them more and more. So the cost went up... it had to. How does that make it any more difficult to get them the food they need. Pay more for the food and let someone else give it to them for a while.
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quote:
Originally posted by verbatime

Tom your statement is uncalled for. I will guarantee you I can out work any man on here bar none. My summers were spent row crop irrigating out of an open ditch. Stacked square bales and scooping hog feeder full. So lazy son of b!itch's like you could eat for nothing. As for what I have, I earned every penny. I never had a dime to my name when I got married nor did my wife. What I did have is enough common sense to believe hard work would pay off. Now as for third world counties just exactly where do you rank in charitable giving. Because I'll bet I out rank you. Give a lazy SOB a fish and he will ****** and moan for more. Give a lazy SOB job and he will starve to death. Give a good man a fishing Pole and teach him how to fish, he will feed himself. Myself I think with any motivation a good man would make his own fishing pole.
Cry me a river Tom you are a jerk off. This crap about third world countries is just that crap. We gave it to them for 30 years so they want us to give them more and more. So the cost went up... it had to. How does that make it any more difficult to get them the food they need. Pay more for the food and let someone else give it to them for a while.


I think everyone on here has gone through the same type of work and struggled through tough times as much as you verbatime. I am just as happy as you are with these great prices. but you are way off base with the third world countries, doesn't matter how much technology you give them, they can not grow enough to feed their people with their soil types and climate. your attitude towards the less fortunate proves just how big of an a$$ you are. if you want true unrest in this world, continue this boondoggle of using food for fuel. it will make iraq look like a day in the park.
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Give food to these 3rd world counties and the murderous ruling dictators will sell it so they can buy bomb making materials to strap to the mentally impaired, send them into a crowded market, filled with food from their own farmers, and then detonate them killing as many innocent as possible. If you want to help the 3rd world countries, get rid of the murderous dictators that live in luxury while they enslave their general population.
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Tom I don't think you can read you ***. I said we gave it to them for 30 years without the help of anyone else in this country. Food is more expensive. I didn't deny they should be fed, you ignorant son of a ******... I said it was time for someone else to anti up.
Why don't you try reading rather than decide I implied what you are thinking. You are the one who looks like an ***.
I sure hope you don't get kicked in the nuts former republican.
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It seems several people are a bit testy tonight. matybe late planting has something to do with it. However, can we not have a more civil debate?
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We can if the MF decides to read what I write rather than interpret something totally different than what the words say. The jackass doesn't have a point and never does nor does he know how to debate.
Besides beaner who elected you moderator?
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quote:
Originally posted by verbatime

We can if the MF decides to read what I write rather than interpret something totally different than what the words say. The jackass doesn't have a point and never does nor does he know how to debate.
Besides beaner who elected you moderator?


No one elected me moderator. I simply feel that we can dicuss issues without curse words. Besides anyone, incluiding children, can access this website and see what is written. I love debate and disagreements discussed openly. We don't need bar fights to get our points across do we? Sorry if you think I am a prude, but I dislike the verbal degrading of our culture wen we can accomplish what we want without it. Civilization is built on building higher standards, not eroding the. Just my opinion. I manage to say what I want to say without cursing and others can do so as well.
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quote:
Originally posted by verbatime

Grassley is correct.

quote:
Senator Charles E. Grassley, Republican of Iowa, called the recent criticism of ethanol by foreign officials ?a big joke.? He questioned why they were not also blaming a drought in Australia that reduced the wheat crop and the growing demand for meat in China and India.

These poor countries have done nothing because we have been giving them the food while they sat on their ***. So we work and they sit on their *** and b**** and all the economic professors agree with the MF's sitting on their ***. They better get off their *** and start a garden or round up some bugs, they are high in protein.


reread your post verbatime and tell me where you said let others anti up besides the US. you sir are the a$$. I sure hope you are never in need of a helping hand, you don't deserve squat
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quote:
Originally posted by r3020

Give food to these 3rd world counties and the murderous ruling dictators will sell it so they can buy bomb making materials to strap to the mentally impaired, send them into a crowded market, filled with food from their own farmers, and then detonate them killing as many innocent as possible. If you want to help the 3rd world countries, get rid of the murderous dictators that live in luxury while they enslave their general population.


r3020 - you are one paranoid person. how's your bomb shelter construction going?
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quote:
Originally posted by Beaner

It seems several people are a bit testy tonight. matybe late planting has something to do with it. However, can we not have a more civil debate?


when you have someone like verbatime sprewing nonsense, hard to have a civil debate.
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You sir are an *** Tom here is what it says Tom you ***... I gave to them for 30 years and continue to give to them you ***.

quote:
Cry me a river Tom you are a jerk off. This crap about third world countries is just that crap. We gave it to them for 30 years so they want us to give them more and more. So the cost went up... it had to. How does that make it any more difficult to get them the food they need. Pay more for the food and let someone else give it to them for a while.

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The fact of the matter Tom you *** is that I disagree with the premiss that the price of food going up is a problem now any more than it was in the past. It is all ralative.
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quote:
Originally posted by Beaner

It seems several people are a bit testy tonight. matybe late planting has something to do with it. However, can we not have a more civil debate?

Pretty hard to have a civil conversation--let alone a debate with your "buddies" hangen'around,Beaner.
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Tom read this... I am sure you will realize you sir are the ***. This explains what happens when you give your food away for nothing over a 30 year period.

quote:
Comments by China that it intends to move away from its reliance on the dollar triggered a sharp drop in the Dow Jones Industrial Average and heightened worldwide fears about the U.S. currency's stability. Chinese Central Bank Vice Director Xiu Jian said that his country is planning to shift much of its $1.4 trillion national currency reserve from dollars to more stable currencies, such as the euro or Canadian dollar. After these comments, the dollar fell to record lows relative to other currencies -- the lowest ever against the euro, the lowest in a generation against the British pound, and the lowest in 57 years against the Canadian dollar.
"The big issue on any currency is if its rate of depreciation is so fast that it scares away all capital, and the announcement that we heard from China sort of feeds those fears," said Larry Smith, chief investment officer at Third Wave Global Investors.
China is the world's largest investor in U.S. Treasury bonds and securities, holding more U.S. debt than any country but Japan. Because China's currency is linked to the dollar, the country also maintains a massive reserve of the currency.
But this policy had already begun to shift at the time of Xiu's comments. China has divested approximately 5 percent of its $400 billion holdings in the U.S. Treasury and established a $200 billion fund to help diversify its investments in equities and stocks around the world.
"We will favor stronger currencies over weaker ones, and will readjust accordingly," said Cheng Siwei, vice chairman of China's National People's Congress.
It is not just U.S. investors who are concerned. Because the dollar's fluctuations have driven up the euro, exports in Europe have fallen and sparked fears for the stability of that continent's economy. In a recent speech, French president Nicolas Sarkozy added his voice to those calling for the Bush administration to act to stabilize the currency.
"The dollar cannot remain 'someone else's problem,' " Sarkozy said. "If we are not careful, monetary disarray could morph into economic war. We would all be its victims."
If you wish to read entire article...
www.naturalnews.com/023005.html

Wouldn't you agree that if China is so well off after us giving away our food for 30 years that perhaps they could help feed these people. It is overly presumptions of you to think I am not for helping these people I simply believe others should share in the process.
I think you should admit that your real problem is that you are an *** sir and wrongly assume that ethanol is the reason for the price of food going up. Did you know there is a world wide drought?
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David when have you ever had a civil conversation? All you ever do is find fault... add nothing positive and ask question that have nothing to do with the topic for instance what does your post have to do with the thread topic?

quote:
Originally posted by David-Ia

quote:
Originally posted by Beaner

It seems several people are a bit testy tonight. matybe late planting has something to do with it. However, can we not have a more civil debate?

Pretty hard to have a civil conversation--let alone a debate with your "buddies" hangen'around,Beaner.


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I can tell I am going to like it on this site, this is the way my friends talk to me....you guys make it sound like being called an *** is a bad thing.
For my two cents, I think the answer is "all of the above". The governments of some third world countries have become too reliant on food aid and cheap food. I like to look at what is on the BBC "Have your say" site and sometimes listen to the show on the computer when it is about food or farming issues, and of late the BBC is preoccupied with the food crisis. I think it is going to be a huge issue for the next year at least. Last week they talked to a couple guys from Africa who said that Africa has become too reliant on food aid. In places like Zimbabwe,that was once the breadbasket of southern Africa, civil strife and land reform have turned it into a nation that can't even feed itself.
As American farmers, it is nice for once to see decent prices. But I don't think the world or our government is going to be able to sit by and watch people starve because they can't afford food, and I don't think it is the right thing to do. What concerns me the most is that whatever our government does it will mainly cost us. I don't want people to starve,but I don't want to lose my butt farming either. It seems to me the main problem is the speed with which grain prices have risen, I heard it described as a "perfect storm" of factors leading to high prices and a shortage of food. I read a piece on the internet yesterday that predicted 33 world governments would be overthrown due to high food prices, chaos like that is something we don't need in the world, but I have no idea what can be done quickly about it.
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I agree with verbatime that we have fed the world so long that the world thinks that it is their right for us to continue to feed them. I don't want any nation to go hungry, but it is our grain. We should be able to decide what to do with it. Why isn't the IMF or the U.N. demanding that OPEC lower its oil prices. If oil was cheap, then biofuels would be a thing of the past. I am tired of the world believing that we "owe" them cheap food. Of these 33 countries that are in danger of overthrowing their governments, I wonder how many need to be overthrown. It sounds like the people are not happy with their leaders so they want a government that can do a better job. It may not be a bad thing for some of these governments to be overthrown. It is usually the governments that were installed by force and rule as dictators that refuse to provide an atmosphere for its people to succeed.
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verbatime - thanks for the clarification. but your first post on the subject still proves your lack of class toward your fellow man. it is better sometime to remain silent and have people think you are an idiot than to open or mouth or post on a thread and remove all doubt. sure would have thought as you were typing that first post that you might have read it prior to posting it, but no you had to post it and prove to everyone on here just how shallow of a person you are.
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Tom well for numb nuts like you I'll post it again so there is no question as to the point I was making. I make no apologies for having fed these lazy slobs for 30 years and feel it is time they got off their ***. And if they don't want to get off their *** and want me to continue to feed them... I say it is some else?s turn. As far as for what you think Tom I could care less as could 95% percent of the people on this discussion board. For people as stupid as the son of a ****** that you are. The quote from Grassley is what I was responding to. People with a brain that aren't shallow realize with having to have every little detail pointed out that when a person respond to a particular quote they usually put that quote in the reply and then make a comment. For people as stupid as the son of a ****** that you are.
Posted - 04/15/2008 : 06:39:00 AM
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Grassley is correct.
quote:
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Senator Charles E. Grassley, Republican of Iowa, called the recent criticism of ethanol by foreign officials ?a big joke.? He questioned why they were not also blaming a drought in Australia that reduced the wheat crop and the growing demand for meat in China and India.
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These poor countries have done nothing because we have been giving them the food while they sat on their ***. So we work and they sit on their *** and ****** and all the economic professors agree with the MF's sitting on their ***. They better get off their *** and start a garden or round up some bugs, they are high in protein.
That is my first post... so Tom you sorry son of a ******... My daughter has a garden and we raise and can food. Then for the rest of the world the last 30 years I have been raising wheat, corn, milo, cattle and hogs for less than it cost to produce and giving it to the whole world. Here is a question for you, you ungrateful shallow ingrate. Since the age of 5 it was my job to put up the garden fence and help weed the garden, I also put up the fence around the brooder house for the baby chicks that we raised and ate? did all kinds of family chores that had to do with feeding ourselves while at the same time raising food to feed the world? why is it my job to continue (btw you are a stupid son of a ******) to feed these lazy slobs if they haven?t learned after 30 years?
The answer is that the premises are false. These people are nothing but pawns of their government to continue to weasel food out of me so they can make bombs and keep the poor, poor. So don?t tell me about life you ignorant son of a ******? I have grandmothers and grandfathers who left Austria to get away from the Germans and who escaped the British when they were being moved to New Orleans.
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Maybe if beaner would put this sort of post in the Wall street, or some of the other highly read by the citizenry more underestanding cound be had.
http://agadvocate.wordpress.com/2008/04/14/the-food-vs-fuel-debate/
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Dennis that is a great link. I am in the camp that believes consumers all over the world have had an unrealistic food price situation for the past 20 years thanks in large part to the American farmer. We have been told countless times we must allow the markets to work, we must get our living from the markets. Whenever we had even a whiff of a surplus, prices dropped like a rock. I have feeling for those who are hungry, but world governments and our own government have had a fairly ignorant attitude for years about farming and food production. It boggles the mind the way Europe has subsidised its farmers over the years, because they could remember a time after WW2 where you went hungry even if you had money. I am perhaps not as blunt in stating my opinion as verbatime, but I do agree to a large extent that it is not the business of the USA to feed the world for nothing. I will go along with having an attitude that we can't let the masses starve, but there is a limit to how much responsibility we have in the matter. As Jeff pointed out, many of the governments around the world that may fall due to this situation are corrupt as hell anyway, those governments by and large have to accept the blame for poor conditions in their nations.
We have all these government entities that are supposed to be full of smart people to predict and avoid situations like this, the UN, IMF, World Bank, etc, yet they don't seem any more capable of predicting or handling world crisis than the local Boyscout troop. I would be in favor of withdrawing from the UN and splitting the money we put into it each year, half to reduce our national debt and half to combat world hunger, in large part by helping poor nations develope ways to feed themselves. I think it makes more sense and would do more good.
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Ks farm woman,
Dang you are good, and thanks, I was going to reply to you as dang woman, you are good, but did NOT want to get off track.
I've "heard" and seen the effects of giving--a boat load of product is off loaded on a port, with NO facilities to handle the product, so it lays in the open, gets moisture and other contaminates, BEFORE the receiving government gets vehicles to move it to the "masses" and by this time, half of the "product" that was given has been either damaged or completely unfit for animal or human consumption...and of course, it was the USA's fault that the product was now, NO good.
Then for years, and we are still tied to it, FOOD from the USA was used as a bargaining tool, "if you don't see or do it our way, NO food for you"---in part, I agree, but NOT to the disadvantage of ONE group--the farmers of the USA.
BTW, if you go to the site and then the sites home page, there are even more good articles.
Grandson is here today, have some re-arranging to do for chemicals this year, and since the applicators probably won't be running much longer--wind is now around 30 from the N today,[] they will show up and I won't be ready and they have to wait on me--which I hate even more than waiting on someone else[:I] Since it blew hard from the south yesterday, it has to get things back where they were...
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quote:
Originally posted by verbatime

Tom well for numb nuts like you I'll post it again so there is no question as to the point I was making. I make no apologies for having fed these lazy slobs for 30 years and feel it is time they got off their ***. And if they don't want to get off their *** and want me to continue to feed them... I say it is some else?s turn. As far as for what you think Tom I could care less as could 95% percent of the people on this discussion board. For people as stupid as the son of a ****** that you are. The quote from Grassley is what I was responding to. People with a brain that aren't shallow realize with having to have every little detail pointed out that when a person respond to a particular quote they usually put that quote in the reply and then make a comment. For people as stupid as the son of a ****** that you are.
Posted - 04/15/2008 : 06:39:00 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Grassley is correct.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Senator Charles E. Grassley, Republican of Iowa, called the recent criticism of ethanol by foreign officials ?a big joke.? He questioned why they were not also blaming a drought in Australia that reduced the wheat crop and the growing demand for meat in China and India.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These poor countries have done nothing because we have been giving them the food while they sat on their ***. So we work and they sit on their *** and ****** and all the economic professors agree with the MF's sitting on their ***. They better get off their *** and start a garden or round up some bugs, they are high in protein.
That is my first post... so Tom you sorry son of a ******... My daughter has a garden and we raise and can food. Then for the rest of the world the last 30 years I have been raising wheat, corn, milo, cattle and hogs for less than it cost to produce and giving it to the whole world. Here is a question for you, you ungrateful shallow ingrate. Since the age of 5 it was my job to put up the garden fence and help weed the garden, I also put up the fence around the brooder house for the baby chicks that we raised and ate? did all kinds of family chores that had to do with feeding ourselves while at the same time raising food to feed the world? why is it my job to continue (btw you are a stupid son of a ******) to feed these lazy slobs if they haven?t learned after 30 years?
The answer is that the premises are false. These people are nothing but pawns of their government to continue to weasel food out of me so they can make bombs and keep the poor, poor. So don?t tell me about life you ignorant son of a ******? I have grandmothers and grandfathers who left Austria to get away from the Germans and who escaped the British when they were being moved to New Orleans.


thanks for showing your lack of class verbatime. you must be a real joy to live with. for your sake I hope you are never in need of something that you either you don't have or can not produce yourself. and since you do not care for 95% of the people on here, why not head over to OBG's web site, from what I can tell they are all closet homo's over there. You would fit right in.
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formerrepulican: There are no homos-closet or otherwise--on OBG's site. But, I will admit that I have wondered about you. Hey, WTF, I thought you libs loved homos and lezs??? I'm going to LMAO when verb kicks your posterior. lol. Have a nice day.
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quote:
Originally posted by 48

formerrepulican: There are no homos-closet or otherwise--on OBG's site. But, I will admit that I have wondered about you. Hey, WTF, I thought you libs loved homos and lezs??? I'm going to LMAO when verb kicks your posterior. lol. Have a nice day.


hey 48. sorry dude but still have some conservative values still left in me. but come Jan 20 or whatever next year, I might come back to the flock once bushie boy is gone. Only 279 days left.
yeah can't wait for another tough talker to kick my butt. they talk big but like mikey and let it ride, I finally accept their challenge then you never hear from them again. typical wimp.
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Tom you prove how ignorant you are, as not one of your posts had anything to do with the thread topic. Every single one was a personal attack. What is it that you don't understand when I say 95% of the people on this board could care less what you think? Also what sort of a mental block are you dealing with when you can't seem to comprehend that I have been giving for 30 years? I would guess you are a real joy to live with considering all you do is find fault.
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So read it Tom what does it say. I can't believe you can't read.
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Here is wishing, but NOT betting, that Tommy can hold his breath until President Bush is out of office.[]
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I simply pointed out that if my daughter could tend a garden so could others, rather than make the claim that ethanol was starving them. Sorry you had to walk to school up hill both ways through a foot of snow Tom. Best and have a nice day.[]

quote:
Originally posted by Tom

quote:
Originally posted by Faust100F

Tom- thought I was the only one on this site that "walked up hill coming and going", I liked that phrase.lol. I have read your and Verb's post's but I am lost. Both of you have a great day. John


forgot to add Faust that I had to walk through a foot of snow also, even in the spring and fall. surprised you have not heard that one before.


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Tom I stand by my statement and it is clear. And that is 95 percent of the people on this board could care less what you think, myself included. Now in that sentence the difference is that I put you before myself. Best have a nice day.
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Oh and another thing that I did was feed the sheep. We had about 50 ewes, that I fed 15 square bales of alfalfa every night. When we had piles of corn on the ground I fed them 4 buckets of corn. It was about a 100 yard walk from the corn piles to the sheep pen. From there I crossed the fence and went another 50 feet to the bunks. The bunks were 2- 16 foot 2x10 nailed together in a v shape with a 3 foot 2x10 on each end. The thing that I remember about that and it was over 40 years ago is that the ewes would never get out of the way so I could dump the corn in. Every day the metal buckets would get shorter and shorter, and I noticed they were pretty banged up. Those sheep were allot like you Tom... they had hard heads.
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quote:
Originally posted by verbatime

Oh and another thing that I did was feed the sheep. We had about 50 ewes, that I fed 15 square bales of alfalfa every night. When we had piles of corn on the ground I fed them 4 buckets of corn. It was about a 100 yard walk from the corn piles to the sheep pen. From there I crossed the fence and went another 50 feet to the bunks. The bunks were 2- 16 foot 2x10 nailed together in a v shape with a 3 foot 2x10 on each end. The thing that I remember about that and it was over 40 years ago is that the ewes would never get out of the way so I could dump the corn in. Every day the metal buckets would get shorter and shorter, and I noticed they were pretty banged up. Those sheep were allot like you Tom... they had hard heads.


yea verbatime and I had to walk 10 miles to school everyday uphill both ways. you make it seem like you are the only one that has done physical work in your life. if that makes you feel like a man, then whatever.
your first post hit me wrong. to say that all some countries have been doing is sitting on their butts waiting for US food to arrive, well dude there are some areas of this world that do not have the climate or soil to grow enough to feed themselves. now for someone to say basically "the hell with them just show me the money" goes against my moral values and I felt the need to call you on your post. as for not understanding your posts completely, I replied to your first post, not the second one which appeared to me as an attempt to add more to your first post so you didn't look so bad to everyone else. no dude you have no class and am realizing just how big of a fraud you may be. keep talking about all of the hardships you had to endure while growing up, everyone on here that grew up on a farm did the same if not more than you, but I have not seen many b**** about it as you do.
you are nothing but a classless ***.
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Tom I don't really care how my first post hit you and considering 95 percent of the people on this board feel the same way I do, it is you that is the fruitcake. I know you are a light weight with a hard head but the best way isn't always to sugar coat everything so you stupid son of ******ing bleeding heart liberals need a real dose of the truth. The best way is to get it over with quickly and get on with it. Look you are an ignorant son of ****** and someone had to tell you. Sorry if that is a shock to you but now it is time to get on with it.
Ok so are you awake yet? Do you have anything to add to this discussion that relates to the thread topic or do we have to continue my explaining it so you don?t get your little feeling hurt. By the way you are with out class when all you can do is find fault and add nothing of substance to the forum. You want to tell me how you feel about me personally and to be quite frank you ignorant son of ****** I don?t really give a rats *** what you think of me.
Ok back to the thread topic (by the way you are an idiot son of a ******). He who controls the food controls the masses. These cruel dictators who take our food and let there people starve while they make bombs need to be dealt with. You may think you are helping these people by giving them food but you only hurt them. What they need us to do is kick the *** of the dictator son of ****** that is starving them after we give them the food, go in help them set up schools and teach them some nutrition and health.
Sorry this seems hard in the short term it is but it doesn?t drag on for 100?s of years like a leach. I would think you could see this for the opportunity that it is but no you want to attack me personally for feeding them for 30 years.
You sir have no class.
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verbatime - there are times that a person needs to realize that trying to talk to someone who is an arrogant a$$ is pointless. yes we control the food, yes the dictators of these countries hoard the food to control their people. but for someone like you to come off that you do not care for 95% of the people on this board, (reread you first post, your words not mine) gives everyone a true sense of the type of person you are. one with no class.
btw, did you take lesson from hillary on how to spin a lie? you are nothing but a true jerk. you need to go back to OBG's website so you can continue to circle jerk r3020.
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Tommycurrentliberal, your ignorance knows no bounds.
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quote:
Originally posted by r3020

Tommycurrentliberal, your ignorance knows no bounds.


r3020 - that is like calling the kettle black dude. you bring less than anyone to these discussions except for reciting the white house play book. now go outside and play little boy and start thinking for yourself instead of listening to lush boy. he might even have some little pills that you can take that will make the world less threatening to you.
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Tom I had my suspicion that you couldn't read however you just confirmed it. Read you stupid son of a ******... one word at a time.
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quote:
Originally posted by verbatime

Tom well for numb nuts like you I'll post it again so there is no question as to the point I was making. I make no apologies for having fed these lazy slobs for 30 years and feel it is time they got off their ***. And if they don't want to get off their *** and want me to continue to feed them... I say it is some else?s turn. As far as for what you think Tom I could care less as could 95% percent of the people on this discussion board. For people as stupid as the son of a ****** that you are. The quote from Grassley is what I was responding to. People with a brain that aren't shallow realize with having to have every little detail pointed out that when a person respond to a particular quote they usually put that quote in the reply and then make a comment. For people as stupid as the son of a ****** that you are.
Posted - 04/15/2008 : 06:39:00 AM
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Grassley is correct.
quote:
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Senator Charles E. Grassley, Republican of Iowa, called the recent criticism of ethanol by foreign officials ?a big joke.? He questioned why they were not also blaming a drought in Australia that reduced the wheat crop and the growing demand for meat in China and India.
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These poor countries have done nothing because we have been giving them the food while they sat on their ***. So we work and they sit on their *** and ****** and all the economic professors agree with the MF's sitting on their ***. They better get off their *** and start a garden or round up some bugs, they are high in protein.
That is my first post... so Tom you sorry son of a ******... My daughter has a garden and we raise and can food. Then for the rest of the world the last 30 years I have been raising wheat, corn, milo, cattle and hogs for less than it cost to produce and giving it to the whole world. Here is a question for you, you ungrateful shallow ingrate. Since the age of 5 it was my job to put up the garden fence and help weed the garden, I also put up the fence around the brooder house for the baby chicks that we raised and ate? did all kinds of family chores that had to do with feeding ourselves while at the same time raising food to feed the world? why is it my job to continue (btw you are a stupid son of a ******) to feed these lazy slobs if they haven?t learned after 30 years?
The answer is that the premises are false. These people are nothing but pawns of their government to continue to weasel food out of me so they can make bombs and keep the poor, poor. So don?t tell me about life you ignorant son of a ******? I have grandmothers and grandfathers who left Austria to get away from the Germans and who escaped the British when they were being moved to New Orleans.


verbatime, i am reading what you wrote, it is in your original post that i have here. now how can you deny that you could care less for 95% of the people on this board? you should email hillary and tell her how to lie while the facts are confronting you.
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Tom- thought I was the only one on this site that "walked up hill coming and going", I liked that phrase.lol. I have read your and Verb's post's but I am lost. Both of you have a great day. John
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quote:
Originally posted by Faust100F

Tom- thought I was the only one on this site that "walked up hill coming and going", I liked that phrase.lol. I have read your and Verb's post's but I am lost. Both of you have a great day. John


forgot to add Faust that I had to walk through a foot of snow also, even in the spring and fall. surprised you have not heard that one before.
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